Ellery Eskelin

Could you introduce you to the french public ? ( Who are you ? , When did you start to play music , ... )
My name is Ellery Eskelin. I play tenor saxophone. I've been a resident of New York City since 1983. I began making recordings under my own name in 1987. Since then I have appeared on at least 30 recordings including work with drummer Joey Baron, bassist Mark Helias, drummer Gerry Hemingway and many others.
I began playing music at age in 1969 at age 10 in Baltimore. My mother plays Hammond B3 organ and she exposed me to jazz and popular American standards at an early age. She is the person who most interested me to begin playing music.

What does represent Gene Ammons for you ? Who are the musicians who influenced you when you started your career ?
Gene Ammons was one of my first big heroes on the saxophone. I first heard one of his records when I was about 13 or 14 years old. I was immediately drawn to his sound, very emotional for me. I also listened to Sonny Stitt, Stan Getz, Lee Konitz, and John Coltrane. Later on I began listening to everyone in jazz, drawing my inspiration from the entire tradition. Today I listen to all types of music.

Could you tell us something about your work with Joey Barron ?
Joey Baron asked me to join his band sometime around 1990 or '91. He had an idea to form a band with saxophone, trombone and drums. We spoke at length about what he wanted to accomplish with this group musically. I have been able to redefine my role as a saxophonist and I have also attempted to do this in groups of my own as well. With Joey I have to constantly be aware of the shifting of roles in the music. There are only three of us to support the entire sound. He writes things that are sometimes deceptively simple but the concept behind what he is doing is actually rather deep.

You often play in trio (with Jim Black & Andrea Parkins, with Joey Baron's Barondown, with Mark Helias and Tom Rainey). Is that the formation you prefer to play with, and why ?
Yes, I have been very interested in the nature of trio playing for quite some time. It allows the players a greater freedom and responsibility in redefining their role in the group. Often times we must make the music sound as if there are more elements in it than three people can normally make. This means we have to play much differently than in larger groups where there is not quite so much room for each player. Since I am very interested in changing the role and function of the saxophone in improvising ensembles the trio configuration appeals to me the most.

You recorded in 1992 the solo CD " Premonition " . Do you like to play solo, and do you think you'll do it again ?
Playing solo is the greatest challenge for an improviser. I am responsible for sustaining the entire music all by myself which can be very rewarding yet very demanding. I found that it changed the way I play the saxophone greatly, even in ensembles. Since "Premonition" was recorded I have performed solo concerts in New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. I do not know if I will record another solo CD any time soon, perhaps sometime in the future.

How do you choose the titles of your songs on your CDs ? What does mean for example T64K37B on your last record "One Great Day "?
I choose the titles after I compose the music. It sometimes takes me a very long time to arrive at a suitable title. I look for a title that has a certain sound or particular mood or feel. It does not always have to be directly correlated to the music in a literal sense, it just has to feel good to me. T64K37B does not have a literal meaning. I just wanted to make a title that sounded like a serial number. It is a bit of a joke since the composition was based on the sound of "serial music". Since the composition was a bit of a humorous play on that sound I decided that a "less than serious" title was fitting.

Why do you use since 1994 the new musical technologies (sampler). Don't you think they can sometimes distort (denature) the sound ?
Yes, I do think that they can sometimes distort the sound. That is why I like them! Samplers are not meant as a replacement for natural sounds, they are instruments unto themselves. With samplers one can manipulate phrasing, create new sounds, and create new contexts for familiar sounds. There are some new and interesting musical territories that are being forged in the areas of DJ culture, with turntables and samplers. Most jazz musicians are not aware or interested in these ideas but I find them to be very stimulating.

For a while you produce your records. Why ? As well , can you tell us about the "I Died Today" recording by Rodd Keith.
In the beginning there was no one who was interested in the music that I was doing. I usually had to create a recording by myself and then sell it to a record company afterwards. This allowed me to make recordings exactly in the fashion that I desired. Even when working with an established record company and producer, I still handle most of the production at the recording session myself. Who better to realize my ideas? Sometimes I like a little help but I usually have a very clear idea of what I want.
"I Died Today" is a collection of music that my father Rodd Keith recorded from the 1960's up until his death in 1974. He worked in Los Angeles for companies that would set lyrics to music for the general public. Often the lyrics that were sent in were very strange and sometimes humorous. The music was done very fast and has a strange and sometimes humorous quality as well. Records of this nature, called "Song Poems" have become collectors items over the years. Rodd Keith has become something of a cult hero. I decided that it would be a good idea to release a compilation that I put together since he was my father. My mother and father separated when I was less than two years old and I never got to know him before he died. This has been a way for me to connect with him.

You compose a lot . Is that something important for you?
Yes, although I'm not sure I compose as much as some other musicians I know. I compose for my immediate needs on a project by project basis. I do not use many formal compositional devices so I must make discoveries of my own as I go. Sometimes it can be a slow process. It's very important to me to compose since my entire concept for the saxophone depends quite heavily on the context I play in.

How important is the improvisation in your play ?
Improvisation is perhaps the most important aspect of the music. But it is not always in the sense of playing "jazz solos". I am always looking for different improvisational strategies for group interaction. My compositions generally include information that would not normally occur in the improvising process. The improvisers must think and play like composers more than soloists.

What are your inspirations ? New-York City ? Art ? Literature ?
I am inspired by people and daily life. I look for those odd moments in daily life that are normally overlooked. We must exclude a lot of incoming information just to be able to process life and survive but I find that a lot of strange and interesting stuff happens that people do not often seem to notice or respond to. Often an ordinary moment in life takes on a very strange shape when you are an observer. I think that cinema captures these types of occurrences very well.
I am also strongly attracted to the visual arts. I spend much more time in art galleries, theater, and dance than I do at concerts. I would rather translate these experiences to music than to concentrate on music for my inspiration, although I do listen to a lot of music at home.
Much of what comes out in my writing and improvising also has to do with my past experiences and what is already inside of me. It is only in the last 10 years that I have been able to put these things all together in a way that is unique for who I am.

What do you think of the actual situation of the Jazz and creative > music in New-York City ?
The jazz scene as it is reported by the mainstream jazz media and disseminated by corporate record labels is a very artificial affair. It is a relic of something from the past. It does not live and breath anymore. Creative music is always present however, usually being ignored by the jazz press. The underground scene is as vital and creative as it has ever been in my opinion. There are many musicians taking the music in many directions at once. I like the fact that it is so fragmented. There is no central figure or movement anymore and I think that that is a great thing.

There is in New York a lot of tenor saxophonist ( D.S WARE , CHARLES GAYLE, IVO PERELMAN or the young CHRIS SPEED or ASSIF TSAHAR ) . Isn't there a competition between you ?
No, not at all. What is there to compete for ? In terms of work, there is only the work you create for yourself. Everyone must carve out their own niche.

Do you like their work ?
Yes, it is inspiring to see that there are other people in this field who are doing personal, creative music. I enjoy their work very much.
I do not understand people who are very opinionated when it comes to their tastes and preferences in music. I like MUSIC. I think that there is something of benefit for me in every type of music. I do not understand hating or disliking music. Too many musicians are opinionated to the point that they miss a lot of beauty in the world.

I've lately read an article you wrote for the web site " Saxophone Journal ". You wrote also the liner notes of your last CD "One great day". Do you think a musician needs to explain his music ?
John Coltrane always said that he wanted his music to "speak for itself" and ultimately I agree with that. The music should be self contained, not needing explanation for understanding. However, I enjoy writing and I think that many people enjoy the insight provided when a musician speaks about what is on their mind and what they are trying to do. This is not really "explaining the music" since I believe that the music has a life of it's own. No matter what the composer or anyone else thinks about it, the music is it's own entity, independent from explanations of any sort. So my music and my writings are two different things.

You only use tenor sax . Could we nevertheless see you one day , as many musicians do today , use others instruments to enrich your sonorous palette ?
I used to play all of the saxophones, flutes and clarinet but over the years I decided to concentrate on my first and only love, the tenor saxophone. I enjoyed playing the other instruments but I felt that there are many other musicians who are more interested in playing them and making them part of their artistic expression than I. I could play them well enough but I realized that it would take an enormous effort to develop a personal voice on each one of them. I find that when I play only one instrument, the tenor saxophone, I must play it differently, more completely than if I had other instruments to play.

You work with good drummers who bring a lot of ideas in the play (Joey Baron , Gerry Hemingway , Han Bennink .. ) . Do you want your rhythmics to be active in the play ?
Yes, I feel that my phrasing is one of the more unique aspects of my playing. I have always felt a strong affinity to drummers since they seem to be able to relate to this aspect of my playing very naturally.

You play as well as a leader or as a sideman . Is it the same pleasure and the same approach in the play in both cases ?
They are very different. Being a leader allows me to go much farther in a particular direction. It's very satisfying to realize one's own concepts. I also enjoy being a sideman since I like the challenge of bringing my sound and concept to someone else's music. Whenever I am called upon to play in someone else's band they are asking me to bring something of my own to their music. It also allows me to explore concepts that I might not explore with my own bands.

A french journalist lately said that your sonorous originality was due to the fact you had the feets in the R&B and the head in the post free constelation . Is that a good definition ?
Perhaps that is true for my recording "The Sun Died" (which contained music of Gene Ammons). But I don't think it is a good definition for my playing as a whole. I have a lot of influences from beyond jazz and they all exist in my playing simultaneously. Besides, I think that many so called "free" players also have roots in R&B. My influences range from classical to rock to folk musics and everything in between. I listen to anything and everything.

People who don't know jazz think it's an intellectual music. What do you think of people who try to facilitate the access to the jazz music (as Wynton Marsalis in New York ) ? Do you think a musician should keep the faith on his ideas in music ?
I suppose that some people consider "intellectual music" to be a bad thing although I don't really understand why. Jazz is as sophisticated as any other music but it also has a very immediate visceral impact as well. You don't have to understand it to enjoy it. That is also true for any type of music.
I think it is important to facilitate access to the music, whether by teaching, writing articles, doing interviews, whatever. I suppose that there will never be real agreement as to what jazz is or is supposed to be. The goal in trying to educate people about this music is to be positive and try to turn people on, not to be divisive and turn people off or make them feel negative towards music.
Yes, it is important for me to keep my concentration on the music and not be distracted by other issues. Music is one of the true and pure joys of life and I would like to keep it that way.

Do you have time to teach Jazz ?
No, not very much. I sometimes teach privately if I am asked. Occasionally I will do a master class at a school when traveling on the road. I do not have a strict methodology for teaching. I think there are many other people who do that much better than I. When I give a lesson I generally try to look for a students weaknesses to make sure that they are in control of certain fundamentals. After that I like to offer alternative ways of thinking about improvising. I want to give a student something to think about over time.

You played with many Europeans musicians. How did you meet them ? What did you learn from them ?
I met Han Bennink in New York during a series of duet concerts at the Knitting Factory. I was asked to play with him. It was a success and we will tour Europe as a duo in December and make a recording for the hatOLOGY label. I have played with a few other Europeans as well. I usually meet them while on tours in Europe. I learned that I must not be content to compare myself with American musicians alone.

Generally , what do think of European Jazz ?
I am increasingly impressed by what I hear. It seems that European musicians have been developing a unique approach to jazz and improvised music by integrating their own traditions and ideas into the music rather than trying to replicate the so called "jazz masters". This is very inspiring to me.

Can you tell us about your projects , and your previous CDs for this year ?
I am continuing to perform and record with Andrea Parkins & Jim Black. We have been performing for 4 years now and I see many continued possibilities. In addition I continue to perform and record with Mark Helias, Gerry Hemingway, Joey Baron and some others. Here is a list of new recordings for 1998 :

"Kulak 29 & 30"-Ellery Eskelin with Andrea Parkins & Jim Black (hatOLOGY 521)
Soul Note - Various: Critics' Picks, Volume 3 (BSSNC003) A sampler of various Soul Note artists
"The Grassy Knoll III" (Antilles/Verve) San Francisco based project, with various artists.
"OPEN LOOSE"-Mark Helias, Ellery Eskelin, Tom Rainey (Koch, KOC-CD-7861)
"Fictionary"-Mark Helias Quartet (GM Recordings) Mark Helias, Mark Feldman, Ellery Eskelin, Tom Rainey, Mike Sarin perform live from Europe.
"Johnny's Corner Song"-Gerry Hemingway Quartet, Auricle Records (AUR-4). featuring Robin Eubanks, Ellery Eskelin and Mark Dresser. 

Interview by Sébastien Moig & Bruno Lamarre

  Discographie

Setting the Standard - Cadence - 1988
Forms - Open Minds - 1990
Premonition - Prime Source - 1993
Figure of Speech - Soul Note - 1993
Jazz Trash - Songlines - 1994
The Sun Died - Soul Note - 1996
One Great Day - HatOLOGY - 1996
Green Bermudas - Eremite - 1997
Five Other Pieces (+2) - HatOLOGY - 1998
Kulak 29 & 30 - Hat HUT - 1998
Dissonant Characters - HatHUT - 1999
Ramifications - HatHUT - 2000
The Secret Museum - HatOLOGY - 2000