VINNY GOLIA

Could you introduce you to the french public ?
Sure, I am a musician living in Los Angeles California. I play woodwinds, the entire families of the flutes, clarinets and saxophones from top to bottom. A little bassoon and English Horn. I am mostly active in what people call the "creative music scene"(Although I think all music is creative). I've had a Large Ensemble ranging from 14 to 35 musicians for the last 20 years along with my quintet and various other projects/groups and I run the Nine Winds Record label which has been around for 25 years. Occasionally I score music for films and tv and I also teach at California Institute for the Arts

Is it right you started to paint jazz musicians before becoming musician ? Could you speak to us about this period ?
In the late 60's early 70's I used to go to clubs in NY and draw pictures of many of the great musicians I saw there. ( i was born in NY) I would look at the sketches and use them for the basis for paintings in which I was trying to think of more as music composition. I was also involved in live action painting with dancers and musicians

In a sense do you think your work as painter help you for your musician career ?
Oh yes , many of the same ideas-rythmn, shape, color, form- I still use as templates for a good improvisation or composition.

Is it necessary for you to do other things, and not only music ?
If you mean other things like 9 Winds etc-yes I need to do this as no one would really know anything about the current music on the west coast. It needs some sort of documentation. A lot of people and even the critics think Shelly Mann is still alive when they speak of the west coast. If you mean visual art-that's something I've done since I was a child and that act still gives me  great enjoyment. It also let's me see things from another perspective and in essence gives me a second opinion about the music I am writing when I can see it visually. If you mean teaching, I've been a school teacher, 6 & 7th grade, taught in the Head Start program in the very east village in NY years ago(mostly cuban & Puerto Rican pre schooler's), subsitiute teaching on an Indian Reservation and done various courese & private teaching in the Collages in both visual and audio arts- since I got out of college, so this is part of me too. Sometimes one area takes over from the others but the essential core of what I do is always centered around music. These other approaches give me the grist to make music from.

Could you speak to us about the music you played at your start ? What were your objectives at this period ? and what were your influences (these can include "non-musical" sources) ?
I started playing just to make "audio colors" at first. Much more of a collage approach,, and I used cello, electric guitar, flute, saxophone, acoustic bass-anything I could grab. Then I heard some of the music coming from the AACM and thought I must be on the right track because they were doing a similar thing with their "little instruments". When I got my first saxophone I realized I would have to buckle down and learn the basics or else. I could never approach anyone to play because they wouldn't take me seriously, especially if I didn't know the basics. So I started to practise alot. Somehow through my past and various eastern philosophies I was lead to Indian music & John Coltrane and that really was the formula for many of my early experiences in the music. I tried to have a group that would do these kinds of things, that turned out a bit schzofrenic. There's even a recording which was never released with the great south Indian violoinst L Subramaniam. Eventually I found out more about myself but I think these early years left their mark on the way I play and write. I guess I was trying to get more refined and deeper into myself so I could make cognitive musical statements and present a balance of composition with improvisation. I'm still trying to do that I think

What were your first important meetings with musicians ?
By drawing in the clubs I met a lot of soon to be famous musicians that seemed to solidify my concepts in painting-which later I applied to the music I was involved in. many of the musicians were quite learned in the visual arts and I knew about music through recordings and what I had seen soo there were some lively discussion and of course many of these players had pictures I had drawn of them some had a painting or two.
As a player, coming to the west coast was liberating because no one knew anything about me(except maybe 1 or 2 people) and so i was starting from scratch playing and introducing myself. I was also prctising a lot to be able to do what I heard. So the biggest thing I did actually was to play with the musicians out here, things started to click and I felt very inspired by the players here.

When did you decide to move to California ? What were your first meetings with musicians there ?
Well, I never really decided to come here, through different circumstances I just kept winding up here and eventually i just stayed. That was in 1973 I think. But when I took my first trip out here in 1971 I was introduced to Bobby Bradford and John Carter by Anthony Braxton who was playing out here with Circle. then in 1972 I did a painting show and had 2 weeks of different musicians playing my canvas as music notation. Somehow from going to the clubs and drawing I meet quite a number of musicians and many of them I wound up playing music with later on.

In 1977 you created your own label 9 winds. Was it a way to produce your music and to do exactly what you want in music ?
At that time I thought that many established west coast players weren't getting much attention so many of them were turning to either producing their own music on indy labels or just not recording. I decided to skip the "middle man" by just putting out my own stuff. I really didn't think that record companies would pay much attention to me, being an unkown and living on the west coast-so the viable option was to put out the music myself.

Do you think is it more and more difficult for creative musicians to produce their music actually ?
The problem comes with editing yourself and also being lenient about certain quality issues on your own recordings. Another problem is wearing many hats when you really have to just be playing your instrument, you have to listen to the recording-not the music-then you have to listen to the music nd not the recording-if your also the composer then that opens up another can of worms because hearing other directions the music might take or accuracy issues all tend to pull you out of the music.

Do you think one of the first important moment in your career was when Anthony Braxton contact you to come in Europe with his Creative Orchestra ? (I have the CD published by HatHut. Very strong music !!!)
Oh yes definetly. I had just put out my first LP in 1977 and when I went to Europe with the group people already had heard about me and so had a lot of musicians in the band, so the timing was great. I also met a lot of people I still play with today like Wadada Leo Smith. And, most of all I met a lot of the European musicians that I occasionally play with now, and I had a lot of fun. Incidentally I thought our Paris concert was one of the best ones we did, I know it was taped but i don't know where that tape is. One thing about the Hat cd-I wish they would have asked me who took the solos because I have a good memory and there are a couple of solos that are uncredited not only to me but some other musicians too, but that's a minor quibble I was awhile ago. But I can still remember it that tour also opened my eyes to a lot of things.

Could you speak to us about the evolution of 9 Winds since the start ? and do you think through 9 Winds you play a part in the development of the californian creative music scene ?
Well I'd like to think that 9 Winds plays a little part the creative music from the west coast not just Los Angeles but I don't get too involved with thinking about that. Occasionally when I see the pieces of the puzzle line up, I feel like we had something to do with that event. For example i think 9 Winds has made people aware of the fact that there are pockets of creative musicians in Portland, Washington, Vancouver, San Francisco, San Diego etc etc and because these people, critics, and musicians have this awarness the musicians can go to these places find contacts, interact -play music with each other and network for concerts. They don't have to explain who they are because 9 Winds has already set the ground work by releasing their music, creating a higher artist profile. As far as Los Angeles, I think the Large Ensemble has cemented certain aspects of the music scene here in LA. Because of the volume of musicians I've used, and because we use many musicians from different music camps & associations, all of these musicians have more understanding of how each other play, how they are as people and how they can benifit from each other by working with each other on music projects. For example , let's say a trombonist who played in the LE wants a cellist-usually he'll call someone he's worked with before from the LE because he or she knows that person can read, improvise and take direction. So now a lot more people have been introduced to each other and the scene has opened up a little more because of this interaction. There's a lot more ochestral color to some of the new music being created here. Who would think to use a bassoon if they didn't know someone who could play what they need ? As far as 9 Winds itself. When I first started I wanted to just put out my own music but as time went on I started to record projects that were from people i was working with a lot and that snowballed into having recording from people I'd heard about. So in the sense of documentation of what's going on, I feel I do a certain amount for the music scene here. One main thing is that as I've said before many people didn't know and still don't know that there's a vibrant musical scene here. It's spread out but it's here and I think 9 Winds is doing a little something to dispell the belief that West Coast music is just about Shorty Rodgers. I also think Tom ALbach and his Nimbus label helped in this regard also by documenting Horace Tapscott and the people from his Arkestra.

You play a lot of different reeds. Could you explain us why ? (is it for you a mean to say music is more important than technic effects ?)
I play a lot of reeds but originally my idea was just to play soprano saxophone.  As time went on the people I was playing with needed to hear other sounds and I started working on getting proficient on other instruments. I found that each instrument and each instrumental family had a palette of colours I could start with and expand, that became very intriguing for me so now years later I play a wide variety of families of instruments so I can get this attention to tone and sound spread over a wider spectrum of musical events.

You have the chance to have a (very) large ensemble. Could you speak to us about this formation and its evolution since the start ?
My original idea was to have a concert where a lot of the different camps of musicians based in LA-the Classical, Jazz, Free, Black-White, etc players, would all play together. Kind of a meeting of the minds kind of thing. LA is so spread out there was all this music  happening here but a lot of players didn't know each other or hadn't played with each other-so I wrote some music, Wayne Peet helped me arrange the early stuff, and actually Wayne did that job into the 90's then I started doing all of the writing and arranging, and started looking around to see who I wanted and we did our first concert in 1982 at Schoenberg Hall at UCLA. After that the next year I scaled the band down to an octet but after that year I started adding instruments slowly to the group for added color and texture. Also once musicians started to hear the music they wanted to become part of the band too so I had access to a lot of players. So it's been together for 20 years now and we give concerts every year. In 1996 we did a west coast tour and in  the last few years we've been invited to 1 or 2 festivals out here.
I've always liked contemporary music and modern composers along with a lot of the Jazz composers-like Ellington, Mingus and Evans so with the larger brass, woodwinds, percussion and strings  I had a chance to blend the orchestral colors of Messian, Varese, Ohana, etc into what I was doing, eventually I wound up with the band being about 35 members once I started building up all the sections in the orchestra. (I don 't use that word much in regards to the Large Ensemble but that is what it has become-an improvising chamber orchestra). Once last thing is that , to me, writing music for the Large Ensemble is the closest thing to painting that I've come across. My only regret is that all the recordings of the group have been live concerts and some of the recordings because of the halls, density of the music whatever have not always been up to our usual standards but it's such an event that I usually feel we should document the mmusic, all the players are really great, I am a very fortunate person

On the opposite way you play sometimes in solo. Is it a way to have a relation more intense with your instruments, a way to take stock on your play ?
Well, it's a very personal thing and a very naked feeling for sure. There is this sense of exploration that takes you deeper and deeper into the music as you discover more and more about sound and your relationship to it. At first I started playing a large number of horns but then I started to concentrate on one or two but now I just play one. And that one could be almost any one of the horns I play, mostly lately it's been the Tubax, a new version of the contrabass saxophone invented by Benidict Eppelsheim. In the past it's been the clarinet or bass clarinet or soprano, sopranino, bass or baritone saxophone. I also use some instruments from other cultures in performances, I did that on my first solo record but lately I just show up with a horn and play. I usually work on different areas and then develop them for performance

Could you speak to us about the recent project Clarient published on Jon Morgan's Meniscus label ?
This is a good example of what I am talking about. I worked and practised certain things and in the end I was led to all these different paths into the music by the clarinet itself. I really thank Jon for making me rediscover that about myself and the relationship to the instrument. Lately, now because of the economic climate I've been playing solo a bunch more.. I like doing it and especially the exploration of different extended technique and their relationship to melody and harmony as opposed to just presenting them as texture.

Could you speak to us about your Dance projects. What do you learn from the confrontation with other artists ?
I think of these meetings between the arts as collaboration rather than confrontation. I like doing these collaborations between film & music, Dance and music -theatre & music etc etc, It let's me use a lot of the training I had as a visual artist. It seems to be all about timing and support and interaction. When I was first starting out there were a lot of areas of collaboration in the arts but I see that dwindling here in the states, I hope it's better elsewhere. The scenes are not interacting and it is often a case of everyone looking out for themselves. This I don't like and think that there should be much more crossover in the different disiplines, whenever I get the chance to do these collaborations I jump at it. There is nothing like the seemless blending of artforms to make a statement to the spirit of man, that's why much of the great music is in ballet & opera forms

Is exploration the most important thing in music for you ? Are you open to the new technologies in music ? and could you speak to us about these projects ? (like your work with Jeff Kaiser for example...)
I like a lot of the new things people do with samplers, electronics, extended techiniques, but what I don't like is when it turns into a science project. The music we play must have meaning to ourselves in order to touch others. So much exploration is great but it must be transformed into cognitive musical statements, it's just not enough to go and find these things/ideas-whathave you, but these thoughts have to becme music in some way. (Often I think the rappers and street kids make the most musical statements of all with what they have to work with they are always exploring). As far as the mainly electronic stuff, like working with Mark Trayle, George Lewis,  or Jeff Kaiser, Wayne Peet or even Jon Marc Montera I'm into these people because they find new ways to use the technology, the sounds created are theirs and not out of the box sounds. A lot of the new guys playing powerbooks sound like Stockhausen from the 1950's, with all this new technology we should be able to create sounds that are much more original. Most of the people playing improvised & new music are rediscovering the sounds in their instruments so I expect it from these players too.

You play regularly with some of the best bassists (Ken Filiano, Bertram Turetzky, Joelle Leandre, Barre Phillips, William Parker...) The music you played with these musicians is one of my favourite. Do you like the contact with bassists (or is it only a personnal impression ?)
The bass is one of my favorite instruments, some of the other great players you left out I play/played with are Mark Dresser, Ed Schuller, Bruce Cale-and the late Peter Kowald. You can learn so much from playing duo with this instrument ( and also the piano). The bass covers the entire spectrum of our music. I truly enjoy this interaction with bassists, I can't tell you how much it's made me explore what I do and how to do it. You can't even play the same instruments with different bassists sometimes, for some reason the music doesn't work so you are always searching to find the right sounds. It's facsinating.

Could you speak to us about your music philosophy ? Do you think, like William Parker these days or Albert Ayler, Archie Shepp in the 60s (for example), that music is a means of discussing the world. And do you consider you are, in a certain way, a committed musician ?
I think I must be a committed musician because I have invested 30 years of my life performing music all over the world. I've tried to stay true to the reasons I started performing, and, to the artists that have inspired me and taught me so much. The artist observes and expresses his/her feelings through their chosen medium, and i have sought to do that first through the visual arts, and now through a sonic medium. With this in mind, the music we play may not be the most important thing we do, it's more about how we express ourselves and how we persue our dreams and images of mankind. The times we are in demand that nothing be wasted, our visions, energies, hopefulness, all the emotions and all the things that make humanity what it is are being tested. An artist can only give his/her viewpoint of what they see, for some it's the quest for expression for others the actual presentation of ideas, for some its an entertainment to escape the harsh reality of life itself. But the bottom line is the artist must give his/her full commitment to their vision in order to fulfil their destinies. So if I have any philosophy it that I am trying to do what I do to best of my ability and remain a positive force on this planet at this present time. I feel I don't always succeed, but I am trying

Could you speak to us about your projects for the next year ?
Besides teaching at California Institute for the Arts, I will starting to release music from the "Music for Like Instruments " project. Volume one will be for Eb Saxophones. Later in the year I will be recording Volume Two for various flutes. Also, the Belgian Jazz Halo label will be releasing a double cd of my quintet with Nels Cline on guitar, Alex Cline on drums, Mike Vlatkovich on Trombone and Scott Walton on Bass. Jazz Halo will also be bringing me to Europe for a project with bassist Joelle Leandre and  Scilian drummer Francesco Branciamore. Nine Winds will be releasing a cd of compositions for the Tubax ( a newly  designed version of the contra-basse saxophone by German inventor Benidict Eppelsheim), a box set of Large Ensemble music and I will have a piece for Orchestra and multiple vocalists performed in Los Angeles. beside the regular touring, concerts in America, movie and TV projects. There is also talk of going to Germany with Travis Preston's theatrical production of "King Lear" for which I composed and perform all the music, in May of 2003, but we'll see. I am probably forgeting some things but that's a good overview.

Interview by Sebastien Moig