JASON ROBINSON

Could you introduce you to the french public ?
This is a difficult question to answer (it's hard to talk about yourself!). I definitely feel like I'm a member of a "younger" generation of West Coast improvisers.  Many have come before my generation, groundbreaking individuals, groups, and communities that have helped pave the way for my generation.  I look to many such mentors - George Lewis, Anthony Davis, Muhal Richard Abrams, Mel Graves, Wadada Leo Smith, Lisle Ellis, and many others.  Also people whom I haven't worked directly with, yet are deeply influential to me (these are the West Coast people) - Horace Tapscott, Ornette Coleman, the Asian American Orchestra (based from San Francisco), James Newton, the list is really too long to condense here! I conceive of myself as an improviser, saxophonist (woodwind performer), composer and producer.  Although I am not African American, my musical life comes from African American music.  I do not try to blur or conceal this influence.  It is simply a matter of who I am.  Most of the music that has interested me comes from African American inspired/derived/initiated musical forms and practices.

As I read it on your web site you are an active musician on the californian scene. Could you speak to us about the creative scene in San Diego and San Francisco ?
Although relatively little has been written about the Californian improvised music scene, there is a strong tradition of creative, improvised, and experimental music that has a long history.  From the 1950s Central Avenue scene in Los Angeles, to new forms of community and collectivity in San Francisco and San Diego today, there has always been a strong alternative presence in Northern and Southern California.  Having said that, it is important to note that the "scenes" of San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego are quite different.  In San Francisco, there is a wide variety of musician social groups, ranging from creative "popular" music and jazz, to more open "free jazz," to ambient, experimental, and "new music."  Some musicians are able to participate in more than one of these areas.  In San Diego, there is a much smaller and more attenuated scene.  It is a challenge to find venues willing to host "different" music (something other than mainstream pop music, very "inside" jazz, etc.). Because of this, a number of us have sought to create different kinds of institutions that can help support marginalized artistic and musical expression.  One such group is the Trummerflora Collective (I'm a founding member in the organization) - a musicians organization dedicated to the support of improvised and experimental music.  You can learn more about Trummerflora at: http://www.trummerflora.com

A lot of californian (and american) musicians (Vinny Golia for example) create their own label to promote their music. Could you speak to us about the difficulties to be a creative musician in the United States ?
You are correct about this. The answer is very simple - to get the music out.  If people like Vinny, myself, or many of my musician colleagues relied solely on the big record labels, or even established alternative record labels, our music would never reach the market.  Most record labels go into business to make money, and since there is only a small profit margin (if that) in creative improvised music, the majority of labels avoid releasing this type of music.  Our audiences are specialized, often "underground" segments of the international music audience, rather than mainstream listeners.  Many of us have chosen to release our music on our own terms, maintaining ownership and artistic control of our releases.  To do this, I found it absolutely necessary to found my own label, Circumvention Music (in 1998). 
See the website: http://www.circumventionmusic.com
The initial idea was to "circumvent" the established power structure of the jazz industry by putting out my own music.  The concept has grown significantly since those first days - now Circumvention is an "artist-run," co-op like, record label dedicated to the release and support of "creative improvised music."  Circumvention artists maintain the ownership of their music, and enjoy the benefits of a "peer review" style process in releasing their music.  We hope that over time Circumvention will continue to become a more visible force in the jazz and improvised music record industry, offering a suitable alternative for musicians interested in artistic control and ownership. It is a challenge to be a creative musician in the US.  In general, the US is an extremely commercial culture.  This especially is the case when it comes to music.  In performing and releasing improvised music, I inevitably contradict the mainstream discourse surrounding musical expression in the US.  This contradictory position means that I am asked to justify various aspects in my music.  Sometimes I'm willing to engage in this kind of conversation, but it seldom changes long held beliefs about "accessibility" or "dissonance" in music. Recently, most of my attention has been focused on speaking to the diverse, scattered listeners that already listen to improvised (jazz) and experimental music.  There are pockets of audiences throughout the United States.  A select group of radio stations play the music in cities across the country, and there are certainly touring circuits that enable musicians to stay on the road performing as long as they want.  However, there is very little financial reward in this music scene.  That is one of the primary dilemmas with creative music in the US - how can one afford to give the music the attention it deserves?  People usually manage in different ways.

Do you think the pluridisciplinary approach is a way for creative artists ?
The simple answer is yes.  Many artists look to other forms of artistic expression as a means of inspiration and study in their work.  I find that any resource that helps me think in new ways about the music I am creating, is a creative and valuable resource.  In terms of other, non-music, creative activity, I find writing to be very fulfilling.  Most of the writing that I've done has centered on music, and explores ways that people use music to express who they are.

What are your inspirations ? Art ? Literature ? People ? and what are your influences in music ?
Life is the most basic inspiration for me.  Inevitably, the experiences that I have, the people that I am closest to, and the central issues that occupy my social and political life, all find their way into my music. That's the "esoteric" answer!  On a basic level, the community that I am a part of, the San Diego and West Coast creative music scenes, prominent creative forces in my life, like my mentors George Lewis and Anthony Davis, and especially my wife Stephanie (who is an amazing musician!) - all of these forces enable me to feel continually in search of new musical directions. Philosophy (especially existentialist, deconstructionist and phenomenological) have been major influences on the way that I think about music. Musical influences are really too great in number to mention here.  My earliest influences (when I was younger) were great bebop saxophonists, like Parker, Adderley and others.  I shifted out of this phase and became interested in Lester Young, Dexter Gordon, Coleman Hawkins, etc.  Then Coltrane became a beacon of inspiration.  His music, and I mean everything from his early period to his really far-out stuff, will always be a major influence.  Now I am really into a wide spectrum of saxophonists: Archie Shepp, Albert Ayler, Peter Brotzman, Fuchs, Charles Lloyd, Evan Parker, Ornette Coleman, Ellery Eskelin, and so many others. This is one of those questions that need be answered in a lifetime.

You play in several groups (different type of music). Is it a way for you to open your play to all the music perspectives - no limits, freedom... ?
I feel that improvisation is the connecting thread between all of these different "styles" that I play.  To me, there isn't that much difference between them all.  I often tell people that I couldn't "swing" until I had starting playing a lot of funk music.  I really believe this.  Playing in a James Brown cover band enabled me to think about rhythmic placement in the processual sense - groove.  That kind of focus gave me a whole new insight into groove in the jazz setting. Also, I like to play music that speaks to people. That's how and why I got into playing reggae music. Something about the form, perhaps because of the rise of Bob Marley's Rasta-focused reggae of the mid-1970s, turns the listeners ear and mind on. People expect that reggae music "means something." For me, all of the music I do "means something."  In this way I feel that aesthetics and ethics are one and the same thing (many writers of the Black Arts Movement in the 1960s said a similar thing).  Now as for "freedom," I'm not sure what that means, or if playing many "styles" of music leads to that.  I'm interested in creating meaningful music that speaks to people.

You play recently with some interesting players for the SOUND TRAVELS - Global Internet Exchange. Could you speak to us about this project ? What are the possibilities in the future with this project ?
This project was indeed quite interesting.  It was coordinated by Western Front Media in Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada), and featured Paul Plimley and Mei Han in Vancouver, and a number of other improvisers around the world.  Using the world wide web, improvisers in San Diego, Tokyo, New York, Melbourne and Austria performed with the Vancouver musicians.  As Paul stated in am email to the musicians, the project was to create "community" through improvisation and communication technology.  And I feel it did this in an interesting way.  Most web-based concerts are simple "broadcasts" of a concert that is taking place at one location - almost like a TV show.  This project used the web in a different way.  Listeners were able to "log-on" to the concert, but the musicians themselves also listened to each other and performed with each other using the same technology.  This allowed for the musicians to be located anywhere in the world, yet part of an ensemble.  The "latency" (time delay) inherent in the web allowed for some really interesting effects (as well as limitations). Despite this level of "connectivity," I found that it was a bit lonely. The web can enable communication, but it still doesn't satisfy the face-to-face contact that seems so necessary to the human condition. There are many possibilities with this kind of project.  Keeping with the "community building" aim of the project, I certainly hope to collaborate with the various musicians involved in the project in the near future. From the technology perspective, these kinds of events (web-mediated concerts) have already become more common.  As I mentioned above, web-broadcasts concerts are quite frequent, and now the use of the web to allow musicians in different global locations is also becoming more of a reality.  Despite these new directions, however, there are great limitations and differences to live, in-the-room performances.  It is simply not the same as hearing, feeling, performing, and thinking in the flesh.

How do you approach the improvisation ? (Do you have any directions of play or any ideas you develop, or do you play free improvisation). And do you think the tension in the play is benefic for you ?
I would say that improvisation is a central element in all of the music that I do.  And in its most basic form, improvisation is about interaction. Whether it is in the "free" (I tend to prefer the term "open improvisation") context, or with chord changes or other types of structural parameters, I always feel that my approach is centered on exploring different ways of interacting with other performers and listeners.  If you listen to the way Elvin Jones and John Coltrane performed together, as well as the way Roscoe Mitchell performed Nonaah in his infamous live solo performance, the related component of interaction is always there. (With the audience in Mitchell's case.)  Also, because interaction is such a fundamental aspect of life in general, improvisation is consequently an organically connected to larger aspects of social life.  "Free" or "not free," improvisation is about interaction to me.

Do you think your improvisations have an origin (subjective or not) like anti-establishment activity for example (it was the case for some musicians in the 60s) ?
Yes and no.  Since I conceive of my work as an improviser being connected to modes of interaction in my broader life work, improvisation will always and inevitably be influenced and related to experiences that I have. Sometimes these influences take the form of political strivings, and other times the influences are more narrowly and personally focused.  It is true, however, that I've been highly influenced by the philosophical connection between aesthetics and ethics that figured prominently in the Black Arts Movement and many black american musicians of the 1960s.  Musicians such as Archie Shepp, Albert and Don Ayler, Sun Ra, and even Bob Marley, all demonstrate clear and obviously intended examples of a connection between aesthetics and ethics.  Even without trying, your ethics come out in your creative endeavours.  So while improvisation is subjective (in the sense that it is based on MY experiences in the world), it is fundamentally connected to the way I interact in the social world.  It is both subjective and inter-personal.

Your last recording Tandem is a selection of some duos you have recorded during the last two years. Could you speak to us about the origin of this recording ?
Tandem came to life over a period of time, primarily through many collaborations I had been involved in here in San Diego.  In this sense, it is a little piece of my history in San Diego.  The original tracks with Peter Kowald were the first recorded, and those became the nucleus of the project.  In fact, the session with Peter was originally for a completely different project, which spearheaded by pianist Dana Reason, and also included pianist Hans Fjellestad.  The four of us (including Peter) recorded various duo, trio and quartet tracks.  Maybe we will release this someday!  This, along with a live performance, took place during Peter's three-month U.S. tour in 2000.  There is some footage of us in Laurence Petit-Jouvet's documentary film about the tour, called "Off the Road." After listening back to the duos I had recorded with Peter, I felt convinced that they could contribute to a "duo" record idea I had been thinking about for quite some time.  (I'll talk more about this below) Then over the next couple of years, I pieced things together.  I was really honored to play with everybody that participated on the project.  I couldn't have envisioned a better path.

Is the duo one of the structure you like to explore ? Do you think the exchange between the musicians is more intense and the result more personal than the play with other structures ?
The duo is certainly a very intense interaction between performers.  Many years ago I performed primarily in the duo setting (straight-ahead jazz gigs), and since then I have had respect for the level of focus needed to maintain energy, complete ideas, and follow the twists and turns that emerge at break-neck speed.  Now I mainly focus on different types of interaction that can occur in the duo context.  Tandem explores quite a few modes of interaction.  In fact, as the liner notes state, the album approaches the "duo" as a conceptual framework - to the degree that some of the tracks include more than two performers!  On these tracks, there are "two" different identities interacting with one another.  Two people can act as one, interacting with the other and maintaining two distinct entities.  It's a bit of a strange idea, but I feel that I can hear these kinds of conceptual, interactive approaches when I listen to Tandem, or other similar recordings.  And yes, the duo does result in very "personal" interaction (as you mention above).  Every note, squeak, grunt, and hiss is clearly directed at and with the other performer, and each sound matters. There's no hiding! On Tandem, the focus on interaction was achieved through different types of collaborative playing.  There were quite a few approaches.  On one end there were very "composed" duos (like "Birdrock Dub").  Contrasting these were extremely open-ended improvisations, which comprised at least half of the album.  In between these two extremes, were composed pieces that utilized improvisation as core elements ("C.T").  Another type of "composition" evident on the album were those contributed by Stephanie Johnson - she took the original material (which acted as one-half of the duo, whether or not the original material was one person) and created an electronic-based duo voice through computer-derived means.  These tracks ("Sblat" and "Song For Tomorrow") were the only that were not done completely in real-time.  The open-ended improvisations (Now and Here, Birdrock Dub, Telepatheomatic, Dark Matter, Hogs and Swine, and others) are less "open" than most may think.  That's not to say that they were "pre-composed" or anything like that.  On the contrary, I chose to collaborate with George, Anthony, Hans, Nate and Marcelo based on the type of musical expression they bring to the table.  I knew that an open improvisation with Anthony would be very different from an open improvisation with George.  So the performer makes the difference.  And the variety of sounds and approaches throughout the album attest to this.
So the short answer is yes, I do like the duo.  However, I'm just as interested in smaller and larger groups.  In both the solo context (which I've been doing a lot of lately) and larger-group contexts, the dynamic is quite different.  In my view, the solo context highlights the relationship between performer and listener (though this exists in any context), and larger groups highly community-oriented dimensions of interaction.  A large, openly improvising, group is one of the most challenging contexts I have dealt with.   It requires high level of restraint and listening, moderated by confidence and courage.  Quite a challenge!

Could you speak to us about Peter Kowald who died in September in NYC ?
It's hard to speak about such an influential person.  Peter has touched peoples' lives throughout the world.  He contributed to the earliest stages of the European improvised music tradition (as we think of it today), and his career attests to a flexible musical outlook that many can only hope to aspire to.  When he was in San Diego during his tour in 2000, he was full of energy, dedication, and musical optimism.  His influence will always be an inspiring force in many musicians' journeys.  I feel blessed to have been able to make music with him.

Could you speak to us about the great piece C.T recorded with Anthony Davis (one of my favourite pianist) ?
The piece "C.T." is an homage to the great pianist Cecil Taylor.  I've always been a fan of his music.  A number of years ago, I was fortunate to have played for a while with Marco Eneidi, an Oakland-based saxophonist that had played with Taylor quite a bit.  Discussing Taylor's music with Eneidi became inspired me to create a number of pieces, and C.T. is the only recorded one.  The structure of the piece is built around a few different structural elements, leaving room at each point for the performer to improvise their own approach to these structures.  The piece was first performed by a large ensemble (around 20 members), then first recorded by a group that I'm a part of called Cosmologic (on the album "Staring at the Sun"), and then was finally modified for the duet with Anthony Davis.  The piece suited Anthony's playing very well.  It also demonstrated what a varied, subtle, and far-reaching musical sensibility that he has.  On Tandem, C.T. acts as a centerpiece for the whole album.  It is by far the longest track, and includes many types of improvisation, composition that utilizes improvisation, and contrasting sections.  I'd have to say, that it is also one of my favourites on the album.

For you is it easy to offer the same emotions in concerts and in your recordings ? In what the improvisation is different with and without an audience ?
Recordings are always a challenge.  In a concert, the energy that comes from the audience provides a major synergetic element to performing, improvising, and creativity in general.  At a concert it seems more easy and natural to slip into a certain kind of head-space that is needed to make music.  In the studio, you must get into that head-space on your own, without the energy of an audience.  Honestly, I prefer to do "live" recordings (this is how we've done the first Cosmologic CD, and the new one about to come out), which are in a performance venue with an audience. However, live recordings open up another set of difficulties related to recording quality, etc.  So in most cases the goal is to tap into the same set of emotional and energy-related qualities in the studio that seem more natural in live concerts.  I feel that I've been getting better at this over the years.  I've recognized this as a skill that needs to be developed - a skill much more elusive than developing vocabularies on the instrument, tuning, control, etc. In the studio, however, other possibilities open up that are not available in live performance.  Many people approach an album as a sort of "show" or artifact that is logically distinct from live performances.  Because you can overdub, mix, edit, and so forth, you have greater control over various elements of the overall musical statement and flow.  I have a few projects in the works that are of this nature; hopefully they will be out soon! It must be noted, however, that most of Tandem was done without editing, no overdubbing, and was very much a live, improvised recording.

Are you optimistic for the evolution of the creative musics and more specially for the development of your own music in the next years ?
I'm very optimistic.  On a musical level, interesting new approaches to improvisation, technology, and musical creativity are constantly emerging. In the context of improvised and experimental music of the past, these new directions seem to offer endless possibilities and demonstrate how vibrant improvised music is as a field and discourse.  I am particularly interested in genre-bending ways of using improvisation.  I am also very interested in exploring the intersection between technology and the saxophone.  I've always been drawn to outrageous guitarists, especially Jimmy Hendrix.  This is what started me thinking about using effects on my saxophone's acoustic sound.  For the last few years, I've been developing ways of using guitar-derived effects in live-performance situations.  A handful of horn players have started to explore similar directions, so this seems to be an evolutionary element that will influence the future.
New alternative "institutions" are continually being created by a wide range of musicians.  One example close to home for me is the Trummerflora Collective.  TF, as we call is, is a musicians collective dedicated to supporting improvised and experimental music.  The organization brings together diverse musicians and creates a self-sustaining community-based support system.  It goes beyond the musicians; it's meant to create a presence in the world of music listeners that is hard to create as an individual, independent artist.
There are many organizations springing up around the world that are similar to Trummerflora. These groups certainly have historical predecessors - here in the U.S. the AACM, CBA, BAG, and many others.  The newer organizations hold an important place in the evolution of creative music.  In a "Clear Channel" dominated media world, the odds are against most musicians.  It is a challenge to get your music "out there" - to get it heard, publicized, and in the hands of interested listeners.  The growing presence of alternative institutions like Trummerflora hint at a very promising and optimistic future.

Could you speak to us about your projects for the next year ?
Sure!
Cosmologic - Syntaxis: The newest release by my collaborative group Cosmologic will be released on Circumvention in January 2003.  It is a live album recorded while on tour in March 2002.  We're really excited about this release - fun music! During the next two weeks I am finishing the recording for an album with Hans Fjellestad and Dana Reason, that began a couple of years ago when Peter Kowald was in California.  The album will feature the four of us, and will be released on Circumvention in March 2003.
Trummerflora is organizing a festival of improvised and experimental music, or "new creative music" as we will most likely call it, to take place in May 2003 in San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico.  This will be the second annual Spring Reverb Festival - last year's festival was very exciting and featured artists from the United States and Mexico.
I am developing an album with pianist/vocalist/electronic musician Stephanie Johnson (who is on Tandem).  It promises to be an exciting aural adventure!  This will be released in Summer 2003 on Circumvention.
Since the beginning of this year, I've been working on a "solo saxophone" album.  My approach mixes a variety of solo sax influences, specifically Roscoe Mitchell, Anthony Braxton and Evan Parker.  I hope to finish this in time for a Fall 2003 release on the Circumvention "Stand Alone Series."
I've been busy composing for a follow-up album to my first release "From the Sun."  This project highlights my background in the most progressive areas of "straight-ahead" jazz.  The new album will either be in trio or quartet instrumentation, and will feature some great musicians from the rarely-heard-from Californian jazz scene.  The recording is scheduled for Fall 2003.

Interview by Sebastien Moig